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TIM RAY: I guess
first of all I wanted

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00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:25,920
to entertain any questions you
might've had about the concert.

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00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,368
I know Mark is having you
write up some reports.

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00:00:30,368 --> 00:00:33,000
Actually I got an advanced
copy of one person's report

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that had some really
interesting comments.

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One of the comments
that this person wrote

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was about hearing--
trying to listen

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for the difference between
the improvised sections

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00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:48,690
and the written sections.

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00:00:48,690 --> 00:00:50,230
What was your feeling on that?

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00:00:50,230 --> 00:00:52,460
Did you feel like you had
a pretty good sense of when

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00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:54,918
we were improvising and when
we were playing written music?

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00:00:54,918 --> 00:00:59,830
Was it a little hard to
tell sometimes, right?

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00:00:59,830 --> 00:01:02,990
I actually tell-- we hear
that comment a lot, actually.

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00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:05,200
Including from symphony players.

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00:01:08,430 --> 00:01:11,254
It might have been hard for you
to tell, don't think that means

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00:01:11,254 --> 00:01:12,218
anything negative.

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00:01:12,218 --> 00:01:15,110
Like I say, a lot of musicians
come up to us afterwards

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00:01:15,110 --> 00:01:17,235
and they go, I don't know
what you guys were doing,

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00:01:17,235 --> 00:01:19,570
or how you were
blending the composition

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00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:20,860
and the improvisation.

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00:01:20,860 --> 00:01:26,330
And that's, to me, is sort
of an affirmation of one

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00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:29,485
of my goals for this group,
is to blend composition

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00:01:29,485 --> 00:01:32,920
and improvisation in
kind of a seamless way.

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00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,460
I mean, it's obviously
not seamless,

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00:01:34,460 --> 00:01:39,260
but to make that-- make
those lines blurry.

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00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:42,470
And I think a lot of
composers of modern music--

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00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:45,490
I know Mark Harvey's
compositions do somewhat

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00:01:45,490 --> 00:01:47,980
the same thing, as well
as of course Greg's.

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00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:50,450
And a lot of people
I know sometimes

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00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:55,070
look for that kind of blurry
line between composition

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00:01:55,070 --> 00:01:55,770
improvisation.

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00:01:55,770 --> 00:01:57,686
Because it's really all
the same thing, right?

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00:01:57,686 --> 00:01:59,600
It's just composition,
you write it down.

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00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,940
Improvisation is
spontaneous, but still it's

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00:02:01,940 --> 00:02:03,940
all kind of the same thing.

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00:02:03,940 --> 00:02:08,039
The piece that you transcribed
from an improvisation,

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00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:10,139
did you play that--
were you playing it

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00:02:10,139 --> 00:02:12,520
exactly how it
sounded originally?

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00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,550
Or did you kind
of reinterpret it?

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00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:18,838
Because it sounded
like a real piece.

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00:02:18,838 --> 00:02:21,210
[LAUGHTER]

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00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:22,150
Yeah, that's--

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GREG HOPKINS: (LAUGHING)
What do you mean by that?

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00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:24,470
TIM RAY: Yeah, right.

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GREG HOPKINS: I
know what you mean.

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00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,288
I know exactly what you mean.

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00:02:26,288 --> 00:02:28,530
TIM RAY: Sounded like real
music, not improvisation.

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00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,190
No, I'm teasing.

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00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:32,380
No, that's a good question.

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00:02:32,380 --> 00:02:34,810
That's another one
people ask a lot.

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00:02:34,810 --> 00:02:36,885
Yeah, that was, again,
that was sort of Eugene's.

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00:02:39,530 --> 00:02:41,240
That was something
that he had improvised

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00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,030
with a different piano player
years ago in this cathedral.

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Now he talked about it
a little bit, I know.

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00:02:46,060 --> 00:02:48,601
GREG HOPKINS: Oh, you're talking
about the piano-cello piece.

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TIM RAY: Yeah, the
piano-cello piece, right.

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And as he said,
they wrote it out.

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I mean, they wrote it out.

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00:02:54,310 --> 00:02:56,650
Eugene kind of just
memorized his cello part.

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And his part was
pretty much as played,

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as improvised back however
many years ago that was.

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And then the piano part, they
wrote it out and of course,

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00:03:07,690 --> 00:03:11,350
being a jazz player
I changed it.

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00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:14,780
So I mean I basically
followed the intent of it,

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00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:18,440
you know, and I played
something specific to what

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00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,640
was played back then, as
according to the music.

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But then I did some other--
I changed it up a little bit.

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Made it a little
bit more-- gave it

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a little bit of a personal
thing, a personal touch.

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But yeah, that's
one of the things.

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00:03:33,620 --> 00:03:35,160
I know you weren't
here last week

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when we were doing the thing
with diatonic improvisation,

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but basically that's
what that was.

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It was a whole thing
about just improvising

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00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:43,980
in the key of D major.

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And Eugene and this
guy, Paul Halley,

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00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:51,082
was the pianist, basically
did an amazing job of kind

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of creating this thing.

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00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,890
And as you said, it
sounded like real music.

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00:03:53,890 --> 00:03:56,223
It sounded like something
that could have been composed.

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It had sections and
melody in the cello,

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00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,810
melody in the piano,
all kinds of variations

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00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:02,790
and accompaniments.

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00:04:02,790 --> 00:04:04,290
And like I said,
that was just one

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00:04:04,290 --> 00:04:06,660
of those things that kind
of worked out really well

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00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:09,580
improvisationally and
happened to be recorded.

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00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:15,636
And so that that's why
it keeps getting played.

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00:04:15,636 --> 00:04:18,010
But yeah, so I don't know if
that answered your question,

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00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:22,079
but that's kind of
the genesis of that.

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00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,030
So, cool.

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00:04:24,030 --> 00:04:25,040
And then Greg and I--

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00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,560
GREG HOPKINS: He probably played
the piece though, many times,

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00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,061
right?

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00:04:27,061 --> 00:04:27,893
TIM RAY: Yeah, yeah.

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00:04:27,893 --> 00:04:29,530
Eugene's played that
piece many times.

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00:04:29,530 --> 00:04:33,820
GREG HOPKINS: So it's not
improvisation of the moment,

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00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:37,250
it's a creation that he
recreates many times over

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00:04:37,250 --> 00:04:38,750
and over and over.

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00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:43,600
So they kind of played
it similar each time.

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00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:44,860
TIM RAY: Right, yeah.

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00:04:44,860 --> 00:04:46,300
You know, and
sometimes it's funny

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00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:49,960
because we, Greg and I and Mark,
are kind of jazz-- you know,

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00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,500
what we might call
hardcore jazz guys.

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00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:54,710
Who sort of believe
in the sanctity

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00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:56,170
of spontaneous improvisation.

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But actually, if you look back
not that long ago in history

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that happened a lot.

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00:05:01,370 --> 00:05:03,990
Duke Ellington spans
a perfect example.

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00:05:03,990 --> 00:05:05,830
Cootie Williams would
take a trumpet solo

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00:05:05,830 --> 00:05:08,707
and Duke would say, I like
that, do that solo again.

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00:05:08,707 --> 00:05:10,790
The next thing you know,
that Cootie Williams solo

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00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:12,310
becomes part of the book.

121
00:05:12,310 --> 00:05:15,200
What started off as an
improvisation, or at least

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00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,460
largely as an improvisation,
became part of the music.

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00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:21,331
So there's a little bit of
history even in the jazz

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00:05:21,331 --> 00:05:21,830
world--

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00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:23,455
GREG HOPKINS: Well,
a lot of jazz music

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00:05:23,455 --> 00:05:27,220
starts out as improvisation
and becomes concrete.

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00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:30,010
Like some of Charlie
Parker's tunes.

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00:05:30,010 --> 00:05:32,540
And he would play them
the same each time.

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00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:34,515
OK, this is the melody.

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00:05:37,262 --> 00:05:39,220
And they're nothing but,
really, improvisations

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00:05:39,220 --> 00:05:44,064
that become part of history.

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00:05:44,064 --> 00:05:44,730
TIM RAY: Indeed.

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00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:52,110
And then, the duet
that Greg and I

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00:05:52,110 --> 00:05:56,069
did, I made a little comment
at the beginning about I

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00:05:56,069 --> 00:05:57,610
didn't know what
was going to happen.

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00:05:57,610 --> 00:05:59,670
And it's kind of
true, I don't really

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00:05:59,670 --> 00:06:00,890
know what's going to happen.

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00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:04,224
That's one of those
moments, which

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00:06:04,224 --> 00:06:06,890
I like to do in our program, and
Greg and I have done this a lot

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00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:08,210
over the course of our--

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00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:10,709
GREG HOPKINS: We never decide
what tune we're going to play.

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00:06:10,709 --> 00:06:12,460
TIM RAY: Yeah, well
we don't decide it.

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00:06:12,460 --> 00:06:15,330
I'm happy to have Greg start.

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00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:18,130
And I don't know, did you--
when you started did you know--

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00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:19,460
GREG HOPKINS: I had no idea.

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00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:21,150
TIM RAY: I had a
feeling you were--

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00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:22,691
GREG HOPKINS: I was
searching around,

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00:06:22,691 --> 00:06:25,230
I was kind of doing a
little prelude stuff.

149
00:06:25,230 --> 00:06:28,510
Saying, now what do I feel
like I want to play here?

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00:06:28,510 --> 00:06:30,960
Well, we just played something
in sharp key so I said,

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00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,430
we're going to go into flats.

152
00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:38,630
Because I wanted to
have a different taste.

153
00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:42,030
And A-flat came out, OK, well
let's-- I know this tune.

154
00:06:42,030 --> 00:06:44,150
And, hey let's play
rhythm changes in A-flat,

155
00:06:44,150 --> 00:06:46,360
and then we went into
the Thelonious Monk

156
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,020
tune "Little Rootie Tootie".

157
00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:54,030
Which we-- I know that
Tim knows and I know.

158
00:06:54,030 --> 00:06:58,590
So basically after a
little fooling around,

159
00:06:58,590 --> 00:07:02,060
OK, let's do that, no problem.

160
00:07:02,060 --> 00:07:05,130
But we had fun
with Monk's riffs,

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00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:10,200
so then we really
played the composition.

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00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,925
And as a composer, I think
that's-- I really appreciate

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00:07:13,925 --> 00:07:22,610
that, when an improviser or a
soloist plays the composition.

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00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:29,670
Because that's a strong way
to approach a improvisation--

165
00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:32,470
playing the musical composition
instead of just playing

166
00:07:32,470 --> 00:07:33,980
your horn, your instrument.

167
00:07:33,980 --> 00:07:37,350
And playing a bunch of licks
and making the changes is fine,

168
00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:42,280
but what does it all mean
related to Mr. Monk's music?

169
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,610
Because I put myself not
as so much a soloist,

170
00:07:46,610 --> 00:07:48,480
it's not about me
as much as it's

171
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,600
about how can I interpret
his composition.

172
00:07:53,600 --> 00:08:02,880
So I'm more like the conduit
instead of the focal point.

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00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,530
So we had a lot of
fun with his riffs.

174
00:08:05,530 --> 00:08:06,890
TIM RAY: Yeah, we did.

175
00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:09,460
And that gets a little bit back
to what we were talking about

176
00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:12,790
with the assignment,
which is this tune

177
00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:14,583
of Greg's, [? "Karagassian". ?]

178
00:08:14,583 --> 00:08:16,254
GREG HOPKINS: Oh,
you have that one?

179
00:08:16,254 --> 00:08:18,170
TIM RAY: Yeah, you guys
all brought it, right?

180
00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:22,740
All right, so we're going to
start playing in just a second.

181
00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:28,280
But the idea, being to--
obviously, get the foundation.

182
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,530
In other words,
learn the melody,

183
00:08:30,530 --> 00:08:34,100
get comfortable with the minor
blues progression-- which

184
00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:36,539
is what the improvisation
is based on-- if you're not

185
00:08:36,539 --> 00:08:40,080
already comfortable
with that, and then use

186
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,200
some of the motifs in the melody
to inform your improvisation.

187
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,330
Use to improvise in the motivic
fashion, as much as you can.

188
00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:52,650
I mean, you don't--
obviously, no one-- well,

189
00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,120
I shouldn't say no one.

190
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,820
It would be rare to hear
an improvisation created

191
00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:59,450
completely out of motivic
stuff, although I'm

192
00:08:59,450 --> 00:09:00,670
sure it's been done.

193
00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:02,770
GREG HOPKINS: Sure it is.

194
00:09:02,770 --> 00:09:04,820
TIM RAY: Some of my favorite
improvisers do that.

195
00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:05,860
I mean they don't--

196
00:09:05,860 --> 00:09:09,260
GREG HOPKINS: I'm always
playing the melody up here.

197
00:09:09,260 --> 00:09:14,360
Even when I play a standard
tune, I'm on the melody.

198
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,661
So then you're never at
a loss for what to do.

199
00:09:19,661 --> 00:09:21,410
I don't really have
to think of something.

200
00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:22,800
It's here.

201
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:23,856
Do something with that.

202
00:09:23,856 --> 00:09:24,980
TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true.

203
00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:26,896
GREG HOPKINS: But then
what do you do with it?

204
00:09:26,896 --> 00:09:29,400
You have to know your
compositional techniques.

205
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:34,260
Repetition, sequence,
transposition, elongation,

206
00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:39,910
augmentation, diminution,
transformation, embellishment,

207
00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:41,492
all that stuff.

208
00:09:41,492 --> 00:09:42,852
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

209
00:09:42,852 --> 00:09:44,310
GREG HOPKINS: And
then sometimes we

210
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,602
play stuff, little
cannons back and forth.

211
00:09:47,602 --> 00:09:49,310
Question and answer,
question and answer.

212
00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:54,470
TIM RAY: Yeah, cool.

213
00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:56,592
So, should we jump
into this piece?

214
00:09:56,592 --> 00:09:57,300
What do we think?

215
00:09:57,300 --> 00:09:59,030
Yeah, we've got plenty of time.

216
00:09:59,030 --> 00:10:05,310
OK, so [? "Karagassian". ?] I
know I suggested maybe we have

217
00:10:05,310 --> 00:10:08,250
you guys do some-- you
know, pair up to do some

218
00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:10,220
improvisations.

219
00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:13,860
But maybe just for
rehearsal sake,

220
00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:16,040
why don't we all
play the melody.

221
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,574
And we'll see if we're
on the same page.

222
00:10:19,574 --> 00:10:22,110
GREG HOPKINS: So, as you know
this is written for my cat.

223
00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:25,910
My late cat [? Karagassian. ?]
I wrote the piece probably

224
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:27,660
in 15 minutes.

225
00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:30,170
It just came out.

226
00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:31,970
Because the cat
had so much spirit.

227
00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:33,250
And it's all here.

228
00:10:35,810 --> 00:10:37,310
You know cats,
they're very playful.

229
00:10:37,310 --> 00:10:39,690
So this melody's very playful.

230
00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:45,786
It's meant to be had
a lot of fun with.

231
00:10:45,786 --> 00:10:48,760
TIM RAY: Yes, indeed.

232
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,290
So yeah, so let's
all play the melody.

233
00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:55,320
If you guys on guitar
want to do some chord

234
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,825
changes in the
three-four measure

235
00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:00,700
you can, or you can just
stay with the melody

236
00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:01,690
if you want to do that.

237
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,700
Let's just do that and
see where we're at.

238
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:10,170
And then we'll get
into some improv.

239
00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:13,210
Do you want to
count it off, Greg?

240
00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:15,325
GREG HOPKINS: One,
two, a one, two, three.

241
00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:18,085
[MUSIC PLAYING]

242
00:11:48,225 --> 00:11:49,350
TIM RAY: That's a hard one.

243
00:11:49,350 --> 00:12:19,838
[MUSIC PLAYING]

244
00:12:19,838 --> 00:12:21,000
All right.

245
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:21,810
Not bad.

246
00:12:21,810 --> 00:12:22,620
GREG HOPKINS: Not bad at all.

247
00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:24,036
But the inflection
is pretty good.

248
00:12:27,150 --> 00:12:30,140
Yeah, it's really
soft and distant.

249
00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:33,607
And then in the third measure
we can clobber that note.

250
00:12:33,607 --> 00:12:35,440
Actually, play a different
note than E-flat.

251
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,800
That's like a crash.

252
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,060
One more time.

253
00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:49,090
A one, two, a one, two.

254
00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:49,940
Yeah, but softer.

255
00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:50,490
Much softer.

256
00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:51,430
Just touch it.

257
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:55,310
One, two, a one, two.

258
00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:56,260
That's it.

259
00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:58,380
One, two.

260
00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:00,194
Loud.

261
00:13:00,194 --> 00:13:00,860
Two, three,four.

262
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:07,780
One, two.

263
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:15,270
So I always put a doit on that.

264
00:13:15,270 --> 00:13:16,270
You know what a doit is?

265
00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:17,500
Where you fall up?

266
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:22,190
It's a fall up instead
of a fall down.

267
00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:24,990
TIM RAY: Yeah, it's always
hard on a piano, right?

268
00:13:24,990 --> 00:13:27,110
I usually just
[INAUDIBLE] short little--

269
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:28,526
GREG HOPKINS:
That's an old term ,

270
00:13:28,526 --> 00:13:31,400
nobody talks about
that stuff anymore.

271
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,260
D-O-I-T it's called doit.

272
00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:36,900
Doy-eet.

273
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:37,930
TIM RAY: Where are we?

274
00:13:37,930 --> 00:13:38,960
GREG HOPKINS: Bar nine.

275
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,470
Third line.

276
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:41,620
Two, a one, two, three.

277
00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:50,125
Two, three.

278
00:13:50,125 --> 00:13:53,130
Three, four.

279
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,530
Two, three.

280
00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:56,300
Three, four.

281
00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:00,990
Good.

282
00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:02,320
A two, a one, two.

283
00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:09,520
Quiet.

284
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,010
Two, three.

285
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:32,370
Yeah, nice.

286
00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,490
So the fermata would
just be for the ending.

287
00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:38,110
And then we would go
to that three four bar

288
00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:40,910
and then go right back to the
beginning and start the blues.

289
00:14:44,184 --> 00:14:46,100
TIM RAY: The blues is
in four four by the way,

290
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,560
and I know the chart's
not clear about that.

291
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,290
But, yeah four four blues.

292
00:14:50,290 --> 00:14:50,915
For the improv.

293
00:14:50,915 --> 00:14:51,706
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah.

294
00:14:51,706 --> 00:14:53,240
So the whole ending
part is supposed

295
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,780
to create this tension,
a little angst.

296
00:14:56,780 --> 00:15:00,010
With the rhythm, four against
three, and then the four

297
00:15:00,010 --> 00:15:01,290
goes faster than you think.

298
00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:03,750
And then when we start
to play the blues form,

299
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:06,504
it relaxes back
to regular tempo.

300
00:15:06,504 --> 00:15:08,670
So the cat's kind of clawing
its way up the curtain.

301
00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:17,180
But we don't play-- we
don't improvise on that,

302
00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:18,930
but you could certainly
include the motifs

303
00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:19,888
in your improvisations.

304
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:23,860
TIM RAY: Cool.

305
00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:24,950
GREG HOPKINS: Should we
do it with some solos?

306
00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:26,240
TIM RAY: Yeah, let's
do it with some solos.

307
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,191
Yeah.

308
00:15:27,191 --> 00:15:29,690
GREG HOPKINS: Now, we perform
it as a totally conversational

309
00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:31,220
piece.

310
00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:33,120
There's no accompaniment.

311
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,710
Everybody's just soloing
at the same time, which

312
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:43,010
is an interesting
style which I like.

313
00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:46,790
I tend to play a lot less when
I'm playing conversationally.

314
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:51,226
Because you want the
person to talk back to you.

315
00:15:51,226 --> 00:15:53,475
You can't be like
some professors who

316
00:15:53,475 --> 00:15:54,974
just talk and talk
and talk and talk

317
00:15:54,974 --> 00:15:56,280
and you can't say anything.

318
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,430
OK.

319
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:58,160
Just take notes.

320
00:16:02,027 --> 00:16:02,610
TIM RAY: Cool.

321
00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:06,570
But you want to-- maybe
we'll start with-- well,

322
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:08,140
let's play the melody again.

323
00:16:08,140 --> 00:16:12,395
And then, and then maybe we'll
do a little bit of soloing.

324
00:16:12,395 --> 00:16:13,550
I'll maybe keep the form--

325
00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:15,220
GREG HOPKINS: It's going to
be tough with this many people

326
00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:16,280
to play conversationally.

327
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,430
TIM RAY: Yeah, well maybe
by the end we'll get there.

328
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:22,760
We won't start there, though.

329
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,571
But I would like to hear
some people kind of pair off.

330
00:16:25,571 --> 00:16:28,070
But you want-- maybe we should
do, like, individually first.

331
00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:29,361
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, I think so.

332
00:16:29,361 --> 00:16:32,430
Let's do a chorus each.

333
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:33,780
TIM RAY: Cool, all right.

334
00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:35,600
GREG HOPKINS: And will you comp?

335
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,612
TIM RAY: Yeah,
I'll do some comp.

336
00:16:37,612 --> 00:16:40,070
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, do
some typical comping.

337
00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:42,820
Base notes, you play the melody.

338
00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:45,710
I mean, all you need
really is base and melody.

339
00:16:45,710 --> 00:16:50,050
Two parts to have counterpoint.

340
00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:54,110
Any two lines could
be counterpointal.

341
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:56,990
Then there's conversational.

342
00:16:56,990 --> 00:17:00,120
Much more fun than
playing alone.

343
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,532
GUEST SPEAKER: And we've
all-- everybody's assignment

344
00:17:02,532 --> 00:17:04,102
was to prepare, right?

345
00:17:04,102 --> 00:17:07,170
Some thoughts about how
you would treat the motif.

346
00:17:07,170 --> 00:17:08,754
So why don't we start there?

347
00:17:08,754 --> 00:17:11,859
Then we see how that expands.

348
00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:13,020
TIM RAY: Cool.

349
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:15,663
GREG HOPKINS: So, do the melody
once and then we'll start.

350
00:17:15,663 --> 00:17:17,329
So just go around,
you want to go first?

351
00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:19,200
We'll go around.

352
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,090
We can start there.

353
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,673
A one, two.

354
00:17:25,673 --> 00:21:46,429
[MUSIC PLAYING]

355
00:21:46,429 --> 00:21:47,470
TIM RAY: Yeah, all right.

356
00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:47,970
Cool.

357
00:21:47,970 --> 00:21:49,194
Let's stop there.

358
00:21:49,194 --> 00:21:49,860
Nice, all right.

359
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:51,750
Great, it's great to
hear all of you play.

360
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:53,490
Excellent, thank you.

361
00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:55,370
GREG HOPKINS: So we
all played one chorus.

362
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:59,130
TIM RAY: Yeah, so we
all did one chorus.

363
00:21:59,130 --> 00:22:00,890
While I heard a lot
of really nice ideas,

364
00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:03,660
I didn't hear a whole
lot of use of the motifs.

365
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:05,350
Let's look at those real quick.

366
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:07,280
GREG HOPKINS: I heard
the first motif a lot.

367
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:07,540
TIM RAY: Did you?

368
00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:07,750
OK.

369
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:09,333
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah,
some of you played

370
00:22:09,333 --> 00:22:14,100
that opening, which
I did five times.

371
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,330
But I transposed it each time.

372
00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:20,904
So it kind of created a
little line cliche, as we say.

373
00:22:20,904 --> 00:22:21,570
TIM RAY: Indeed.

374
00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:22,410
Indeed.

375
00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:22,910
Right.

376
00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:24,993
So that first one, I think
we looked at these just

377
00:22:24,993 --> 00:22:26,240
briefly last time.

378
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,100
Yeah, the first one
is a good one to grab.

379
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,190
The repeated note,
that's a nice one.

380
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:35,370
GREG HOPKINS: Number
two, number two.

381
00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:36,372
That's funky.

382
00:22:36,372 --> 00:22:37,830
TIM RAY: That's
pretty funky, yeah.

383
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:39,560
GREG HOPKINS: You
could go [PLAYS MUSIC].

384
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,210
You could go [PLAYS MUSIC].

385
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:42,736
You could go [PLAYS MUSIC].

386
00:22:42,736 --> 00:22:44,180
You could go [PLAYS MUSIC].

387
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:45,669
You could go [PLAYS MUSIC].

388
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,470
Just play it, you
could do-- yeah,

389
00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,630
we could do several
choruses just on that.

390
00:23:00,630 --> 00:23:02,600
TIM RAY: Just on that, I know.

391
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:03,620
And we probably have.

392
00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:05,330
GREG HOPKINS: By
changing notes, I'm

393
00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:08,680
using the rhythmic
contours of motif.

394
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,590
So, the da da da da, I could
do anything I want there.

395
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:21,373
[PLAYS MUSIC]

396
00:23:21,373 --> 00:23:22,340
Yeah.

397
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:25,620
You could work your way through
creating interesting melodies

398
00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:29,575
by changing the notes.

399
00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:32,080
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

400
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,922
Do you want to do a little
motivic exercise, maybe?

401
00:23:34,922 --> 00:23:36,380
We'll go-- we'll
do the same thing.

402
00:23:36,380 --> 00:23:37,040
We'll go around the--

403
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,748
GREG HOPKINS: Let's
just play that motif.

404
00:23:38,748 --> 00:23:39,577
Da da da da.

405
00:23:39,577 --> 00:23:40,160
TIM RAY: Yeah.

406
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,360
GREG HOPKINS: So you
can play four notes.

407
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:43,820
One two three four.

408
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:48,027
You can play any
intervals, though.

409
00:23:48,027 --> 00:23:48,610
TIM RAY: Cool.

410
00:23:52,670 --> 00:23:53,847
GREG HOPKINS: Not yet.

411
00:23:53,847 --> 00:23:55,430
This is my warm up,
Mark, for the day.

412
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:56,927
[LAUGHTER]

413
00:23:56,927 --> 00:23:58,052
GUEST SPEAKER: Pretty good.

414
00:23:58,052 --> 00:23:59,927
GREG HOPKINS: It's a
good tune to warm up on.

415
00:23:59,927 --> 00:24:00,570
TIM RAY: It is.

416
00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:03,411
So, you want to do
everybody four measures?

417
00:24:03,411 --> 00:24:04,410
GREG HOPKINS: Let's do--

418
00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:04,970
TIM RAY: [INAUDIBLE]

419
00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:05,080
Sure.

420
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:05,870
Four bars each.

421
00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:06,430
TIM RAY: What do you think?

422
00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:06,930
OK.

423
00:24:06,930 --> 00:24:08,160
Just doing that motif.

424
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,500
Just the repeated note motif.

425
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:09,860
All right.

426
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:10,693
Why don't you start.

427
00:24:10,693 --> 00:24:12,530
GREG HOPKINS: A two, a one, two.

428
00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:35,561
Good Nice idea.

429
00:24:35,561 --> 00:24:36,060
Yeah.

430
00:24:56,670 --> 00:24:57,340
Do another one.

431
00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:57,980
You go.

432
00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:58,650
One.

433
00:24:58,650 --> 00:24:59,090
AUDIENCE: From this [INAUDIBLE]?

434
00:24:59,090 --> 00:24:59,881
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah.

435
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,060
Flute.

436
00:25:17,121 --> 00:25:17,912
TIM RAY: You ready?

437
00:25:24,856 --> 00:25:25,685
Yeah, nice.

438
00:25:25,685 --> 00:25:26,710
GREG HOPKINS: Next solo.

439
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,000
[LAUGHTER]

440
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,500
Yeah.

441
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:49,470
So we're setting parameters now.

442
00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:52,799
You have to use that material
and create with that.

443
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:54,840
It's like, I mean we're
sculptors, Let's face it,

444
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,300
we're just shaping stuff
out of these materials.

445
00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:00,960
So sometimes it's really
good to limit yourself.

446
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,040
That's what an etude
is, an etude is always

447
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,880
like one idea for
the whole page.

448
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,562
And the composer of
the etude does it

449
00:26:08,562 --> 00:26:12,260
in all the different
keys so you'll learn it.

450
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:15,320
So it's really good to set the
parameters like that I think.

451
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,820
TIM RAY: Yeah, oh
I think so too.

452
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:18,590
I think it's a great
way to-- you know,

453
00:26:18,590 --> 00:26:19,960
there's all kinds of parameters.

454
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,310
You can obviously-- we're
doing the little motivic thing

455
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:25,380
with the four
notes, but you can,

456
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:27,410
obviously-- there's any
number of other motifs

457
00:26:27,410 --> 00:26:28,460
you could do that with.

458
00:26:28,460 --> 00:26:32,250
You can do set
parameters, as far

459
00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:33,830
as the range of
your instruments,

460
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:38,070
or dynamics, or
rhythmic density,

461
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:40,530
you know, do a solo
with all quarter notes.

462
00:26:40,530 --> 00:26:41,070
Right?

463
00:26:41,070 --> 00:26:43,240
Or do a solo with all
quarter note triplets, right?

464
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,610
Something like that,
that's another great way

465
00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:50,755
to kind of expand your range.

466
00:26:50,755 --> 00:26:52,130
In other words,
expand your range

467
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:53,950
of what you're doing
with improvisation.

468
00:26:57,130 --> 00:27:00,020
Let's do another one of those.

469
00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:02,037
Let's see, what's another
good motif to grab?

470
00:27:02,037 --> 00:27:03,620
GREG HOPKINS: Bar
nine is pretty good.

471
00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:13,906
That might be a little hard.

472
00:27:13,906 --> 00:27:15,540
Well, the opening motif is good.

473
00:27:19,157 --> 00:27:19,740
TIM RAY: Cool.

474
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:20,580
Cool.

475
00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:24,190
Yeah, let's do the same thing.

476
00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:25,170
Four measures again?

477
00:27:25,170 --> 00:27:25,810
GREG HOPKINS: Four measures.

478
00:27:25,810 --> 00:27:27,240
We'll do the opening motif.

479
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,240
Two, a one, two, three.

480
00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:44,520
Nice.

481
00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:49,700
Nice.

482
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:50,720
Go ahead.

483
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,505
Change direction.

484
00:27:56,883 --> 00:27:57,383
Nice.

485
00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:20,615
TIM RAY: Yeah.

486
00:28:50,792 --> 00:28:51,500
GREG HOPKINS: OK.

487
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:56,440
So, I mean, how would you
practice something like that?

488
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,932
Well, let's play that motif.

489
00:28:59,932 --> 00:29:00,890
Just those three notes.

490
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:08,745
OK, let's go up in half steps.

491
00:29:08,745 --> 00:29:11,370
So I'm going to sequence it, I'm
going to play it in every key.

492
00:29:14,010 --> 00:29:17,216
OK, and then we
go (PLAYS MUSIC).

493
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:24,700
Yeah.

494
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:32,290
So the first one, D
G, D G, D G D. Now,

495
00:29:32,290 --> 00:29:33,830
what am I-- I'm
hearing in my head,

496
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:36,138
I'm hearing five one five.

497
00:29:36,138 --> 00:29:38,280
So I'm hearing it in the key.

498
00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:45,170
Up a half.

499
00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:47,710
So an A-flat now.

500
00:29:47,710 --> 00:29:52,450
Let's do it in A. A.

501
00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:55,506
Next key.

502
00:29:55,506 --> 00:29:56,398
Next key.

503
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,580
Next key.

504
00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:02,300
Next key.

505
00:30:20,865 --> 00:30:21,855
Yeah, good.

506
00:30:21,855 --> 00:30:23,840
OK?

507
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,820
So then we could (PLAYS MUSIC).

508
00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:35,490
You can put it in, and we could
do the same thing going down.

509
00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:36,940
We could do the motif down.

510
00:30:44,445 --> 00:30:46,320
I mean, that's what you
do when you practice.

511
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,930
You do really mundane--
maybe not mundane,

512
00:30:49,930 --> 00:30:54,240
you do really small,
little things.

513
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,370
I mean, it might
take me 10 minutes

514
00:30:56,370 --> 00:31:00,410
to really feel comfortable
with that, just those intervals

515
00:31:00,410 --> 00:31:02,907
going up in sequences like that.

516
00:31:02,907 --> 00:31:03,990
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

517
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:05,698
GREG HOPKINS: And then
you could sequence

518
00:31:05,698 --> 00:31:08,550
things four different ways.

519
00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:10,020
Let's sequence it
in whole steps.

520
00:31:19,602 --> 00:31:22,060
Up a whole step, I'm going to
go up a whole step each time.

521
00:31:30,210 --> 00:31:31,811
Too high?

522
00:31:31,811 --> 00:31:32,310
Yeah.

523
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:34,890
So the person is going
to be in G then A then B

524
00:31:34,890 --> 00:31:39,130
then C-sharp, then E-flat,
then F, and then G again.

525
00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:39,727
Right?

526
00:31:39,727 --> 00:31:40,310
TIM RAY: Yeah.

527
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:41,282
Absolutely.

528
00:31:41,282 --> 00:31:42,490
GREG HOPKINS: Can we do that?

529
00:31:42,490 --> 00:31:43,000
TIM RAY: Sure.

530
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,291
GREG HOPKINS: Let's just go up.

531
00:31:44,291 --> 00:31:45,269
Skip the first note.

532
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:47,310
Now I'm going to sequence
just the first measure.

533
00:32:03,699 --> 00:32:04,198
Right.

534
00:32:04,198 --> 00:32:05,100
That's it.

535
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:15,547
There I go.

536
00:32:15,547 --> 00:32:17,880
It's the whole thing, now
it's a whole different animal.

537
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,302
Now it sounds like a
progression, right?

538
00:32:20,302 --> 00:32:21,010
TIM RAY: It does.

539
00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:21,930
Yeah, absolutely.

540
00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:28,180
GREG HOPKINS: So
that creates it.

541
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:31,941
And we can do it
in minor thirds.

542
00:32:31,941 --> 00:32:32,440
OK?

543
00:32:42,730 --> 00:32:44,070
Let's do that over a G pedal.

544
00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:55,770
Yeah, that creates kind
of a bluesy feeling.

545
00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:57,220
It's like a G diminished chord.

546
00:32:57,220 --> 00:32:58,303
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

547
00:33:00,590 --> 00:33:02,645
Right, yeah.

548
00:33:02,645 --> 00:33:04,770
GREG HOPKINS: So now I'm
creating counterpoint just

549
00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:06,620
with the motif.

550
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:08,120
Then we could do
it in major thirds.

551
00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:18,270
That's an interesting one too--

552
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:19,020
TIM RAY: It is.

553
00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:19,460
GREG HOPKINS: You think?

554
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:19,670
TIM RAY: Oh yeah.

555
00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:20,390
Absolutely.

556
00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:22,556
GREG HOPKINS: This is-- I
learned all this from him.

557
00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:27,710
[LAUGHTER]

558
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:30,537
Let's do that over a D pedal.

559
00:33:30,537 --> 00:33:31,120
TIM RAY: Sure.

560
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,078
GREG HOPKINS: One, two.

561
00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:51,120
Then we could do cycle four.

562
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,710
So we did half steps,
whole steps, minor thirds,

563
00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:56,700
major thirds, what's
the next interval?

564
00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:02,860
Above a major third
is a perfect fourth.

565
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:06,940
So this is going-- there's
going to be 12 of them.

566
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:08,810
This is cycle five, right?

567
00:34:08,810 --> 00:34:09,715
TIM RAY: Sure, yeah.

568
00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:20,340
Yeah, right.

569
00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:21,179
Or you can just--

570
00:34:21,179 --> 00:34:21,840
GREG HOPKINS: Now we're
going to expand it.

571
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,250
We're going to
play a minor triad.

572
00:34:23,250 --> 00:34:25,791
Instead of just one five, we're
going to play one three five.

573
00:34:33,694 --> 00:34:36,480
Let's play up and
down a minor triad.

574
00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:46,219
So we embellished the lick.

575
00:34:46,219 --> 00:34:46,719
That's fine.

576
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,429
You can add notes
whenever you want.

577
00:34:50,429 --> 00:34:52,120
Why'd you do that?

578
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:52,620
I wanted to.

579
00:34:56,489 --> 00:34:58,950
G minor, so now we're
going to do cycles,

580
00:34:58,950 --> 00:35:02,830
so we're going to go a forth
up to C minor, fourth up to F

581
00:35:02,830 --> 00:35:05,670
minor, B-flat minor, E-flat
minor, A-flat minor, D-flat

582
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:09,300
minor, G-flat minor, B minor,
E minor, A minor, D minor,

583
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,925
back to G. Slowly.

584
00:35:12,925 --> 00:35:13,520
Ready, go.

585
00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:46,965
So now I'm going to
take that same idea

586
00:35:46,965 --> 00:35:48,180
and do it in whole steps.

587
00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:54,920
And so on.

588
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,060
It's all just grunt work.

589
00:35:59,060 --> 00:36:00,270
But that's what Coltrane did.

590
00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:02,780
He used to practice in his
apartment eight hours a day.

591
00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:08,450
Eight hours a day just on
these-- what he was playing.

592
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:11,160
He made up his own etudes.

593
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,150
Yeah, he did.

594
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:15,967
Which is what all the good--
all the great players do.

595
00:36:15,967 --> 00:36:17,050
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

596
00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:18,960
I mean, certainly--

597
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,590
GREG HOPKINS: This is the model.

598
00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:21,490
This is the model.

599
00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:23,420
This has dozens of ideas.

600
00:36:26,452 --> 00:36:27,910
TIM RAY: Yeah, and
certainly that's

601
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:30,782
the idea of any kind of
work on improvisation.

602
00:36:30,782 --> 00:36:32,990
You know, when you're sitting
alone at home thinking,

603
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:34,570
you know, because
everyone always says,

604
00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:35,985
well I don't know how to
practice improvisation.

605
00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:36,760
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah,
what should I do?

606
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:37,880
Oh, I'm going to play
my scales every day.

607
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:38,546
OK, that's fine.

608
00:36:38,546 --> 00:36:40,790
TIM RAY: Because
it's spontaneous.

609
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:43,400
GREG HOPKINS: You got make
goals, a set of goals.

610
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,880
And we can tell you what goals,
what projects to work on.

611
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,630
TIM RAY: But yeah.

612
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:53,580
But a lot of it's just about
coming up with stuff like this.

613
00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:56,560
Obviously, as Greg said,
we can tell you stuff

614
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,050
or you could go
buy books that have

615
00:36:58,050 --> 00:36:59,340
patterns and stuff like that.

616
00:36:59,340 --> 00:37:01,170
And that's all great,
but sometimes it's

617
00:37:01,170 --> 00:37:02,586
just about what
we're doing, which

618
00:37:02,586 --> 00:37:03,910
is like, OK, let's try that.

619
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:05,160
Now let's try it up a fourth.

620
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,090
And let's find this
little two bar thing.

621
00:37:09,090 --> 00:37:11,010
I mean, if you want
to get more difficult

622
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:14,464
you can find something
even in a tune like this.

623
00:37:14,464 --> 00:37:16,130
Something that's a
little more difficult

624
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:17,639
and try that in all 12 keys.

625
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,305
GREG HOPKINS: Let's
do bar 17, you know.

626
00:37:19,305 --> 00:37:19,770
[LAUGHTER]

627
00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:20,645
TIM RAY: Yeah, right.

628
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,310
No, I'm not going to try it.

629
00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:28,850
GREG HOPKINS:
That's a-- basically

630
00:37:28,850 --> 00:37:31,570
it's this a B-flat lick.

631
00:37:38,930 --> 00:37:41,132
Yeah, that was my
idea, I want to go

632
00:37:41,132 --> 00:37:44,860
from B-flat to B-flat with some
kind of maybe 12 tone idea,

633
00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:47,990
I don't know what it is.

634
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:50,080
TIM RAY: Yeah, so
that's, as Greg says,

635
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:56,264
a lot of just sitting alone
at home work that's, I think,

636
00:37:56,264 --> 00:37:57,180
that's really helpful.

637
00:37:57,180 --> 00:37:58,388
All the great players did it.

638
00:37:58,388 --> 00:38:00,380
They all spent 10,000 hours.

639
00:38:00,380 --> 00:38:01,800
Is that the current idea?

640
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,470
GREG HOPKINS: I
do the same thing.

641
00:38:03,470 --> 00:38:05,310
I do the same thing
with my scales.

642
00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:08,340
How do you practice your scales?

643
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:10,320
Well, you do them in intervals.

644
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,610
I mean, what is a melody?

645
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:12,760
Let's define melody.

646
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,220
This is a good place to do it.

647
00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:18,450
Let's have a real technical
definition of melody.

648
00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:19,450
Anybody, what is melody?

649
00:38:21,817 --> 00:38:23,400
First thing that
comes into your head.

650
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:24,445
What's the melody?

651
00:38:24,445 --> 00:38:26,225
AUDIENCE: Whatever
you'd sing after you're

652
00:38:26,225 --> 00:38:28,010
done listening to it.

653
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:30,870
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, whatever
you hear-- what did you say?

654
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:31,425
AUDIENCE: Whatever
you would sing

655
00:38:31,425 --> 00:38:32,925
after you were done
listening to it.

656
00:38:32,925 --> 00:38:36,144
GREG HOPKINS: Good, yeah,
whatever you'd sing.

657
00:38:36,144 --> 00:38:38,560
You're a melody player, violin,
you're all melody players.

658
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,980
Yeah.

659
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:41,620
You guys, too.

660
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:42,550
What's melody to you?

661
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:49,048
AUDIENCE: It's
kind of the song--

662
00:38:49,048 --> 00:38:50,673
GREG HOPKINS: It's
the song, very good.

663
00:38:50,673 --> 00:38:51,380
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

664
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:52,970
GREG HOPKINS: Many
people say that.

665
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:53,820
It's the main idea.

666
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:58,040
It's the meaning.

667
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,390
Technically, is this music?

668
00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:03,800
No, this is paper
with ink on it.

669
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,220
This is graph paper.

670
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:07,040
This is graph paper.

671
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,790
Pitch goes up and down,
time goes that way.

672
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:12,210
This is not music.

673
00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:15,640
It's only music when you
realize it, when you play it.

674
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:22,040
So, the better you are
at creating intervals,

675
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,400
the better you'll be
at melody playing.

676
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,650
A melody is a
series of intervals

677
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:29,860
in some kind of rhythm.

678
00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:44,288
So if I play-- that's the sixth.

679
00:39:44,288 --> 00:39:49,150
So six down, fourth
up, third up,

680
00:39:49,150 --> 00:39:53,320
minor sixth down, half step
up, half step, half step.

681
00:39:56,794 --> 00:39:58,960
That's what a melody is,
it's a series of intervals,

682
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,100
that's all.

683
00:40:01,100 --> 00:40:02,280
In some kind of time, right?

684
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:12,490
Every melody-- that's a
third, and then a fourth.

685
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:14,620
Another third, second
second, major seventh.

686
00:40:17,130 --> 00:40:18,970
So, when we're playing
our scales, right?

687
00:40:48,430 --> 00:40:49,920
That's all the
same scale, I just

688
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,045
played different intervals.

689
00:40:51,045 --> 00:40:52,620
I'll play the scale
in seconds, I'll

690
00:40:52,620 --> 00:40:55,810
play the scale in thirds,
fourths, fifths, sixths,

691
00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:58,260
and sevenths.

692
00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:00,380
Let's play G melodic minor.

693
00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:01,680
No, G-natural minor.

694
00:41:10,724 --> 00:41:11,930
Good, yeah, up and down.

695
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:12,840
One note in the top.

696
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,340
Go.

697
00:41:21,369 --> 00:41:22,285
Now play it in thirds.

698
00:41:30,889 --> 00:41:32,180
Now play it in fourths, slowly.

699
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,145
Now in fifths.

700
00:41:57,540 --> 00:41:58,040
Nice.

701
00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,220
Sixth is really pretty.

702
00:42:13,232 --> 00:42:17,290
Sevenths is even more diverse,
a little obtuse, maybe?

703
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:36,730
Yeah.

704
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:39,370
Octaves.

705
00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:39,962
Ninths.

706
00:42:39,962 --> 00:42:41,670
I mean, you could
expand it even further.

707
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:43,130
TIM RAY: Sure.

708
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:44,870
GREG HOPKINS: You
do that, right?

709
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:45,000
TIM RAY: Yeah.

710
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:45,540
GREG HOPKINS: You've got
to learn your intervals.

711
00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:46,331
TIM RAY: Of course.

712
00:42:46,331 --> 00:42:47,297
Yeah, absolutely.

713
00:42:47,297 --> 00:42:49,130
GREG HOPKINS: And also
inherent in the scale

714
00:42:49,130 --> 00:42:55,211
is diatonic triads and
diatonic seventh chords.

715
00:42:55,211 --> 00:42:56,210
Do you do that in class?

716
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:58,054
GUEST SPEAKER: We
haven't done that.

717
00:42:58,054 --> 00:43:01,400
Have you done that with Tom?

718
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,150
GREG HOPKINS: Yeah,
play up all the triads

719
00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:05,210
in the G minor scale.

720
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:07,250
TIM RAY: Yeah, well, right.

721
00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:08,810
If you're doing natural minor.

722
00:43:17,334 --> 00:43:18,500
GREG HOPKINS: Let's do that.

723
00:43:40,780 --> 00:43:42,800
It's just building blocks.

724
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,027
This is the building blocks
of melody and harmony.

725
00:43:46,027 --> 00:43:47,250
TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true.

726
00:43:47,250 --> 00:43:48,910
GREG HOPKINS: And then
as you study each scale,

727
00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:49,995
each scale is different.

728
00:43:49,995 --> 00:43:52,520
Each scale has
characteristic notes

729
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,560
that make it function
different than other scales.

730
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,540
That's what makes
the scales different,

731
00:43:57,540 --> 00:44:00,300
is the different notes.

732
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:02,820
And how the architecture
of the scale

733
00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:06,080
works and draws things together.

734
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,666
So, I mean that's what we
study when we practice.

735
00:44:08,666 --> 00:44:10,730
I'll practice
scales and I'll try

736
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:14,190
to really get the
meaning out of the scale.

737
00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:39,140
This scale, natural
minor, is-- Yeah, I

738
00:44:39,140 --> 00:44:41,730
mean there's certain things that
make that scale work, right?

739
00:44:41,730 --> 00:44:42,120
TIM RAY: Sure, absolutely.

740
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,110
GREG HOPKINS: Flat sixth, right?

741
00:44:43,110 --> 00:44:43,943
TIM RAY: Yeah, yeah.

742
00:44:43,943 --> 00:44:45,140
Absolutely.

743
00:44:45,140 --> 00:44:47,140
GREG HOPKINS: So if I'm
playing a natural minor,

744
00:44:47,140 --> 00:44:52,140
I immediately know that the flat
sixth is a real strong note.

745
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:55,670
Let's just play a natural--
we'll play a natural minor just

746
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:56,407
for a minute.

747
00:44:56,407 --> 00:44:56,990
TIM RAY: Sure.

748
00:44:56,990 --> 00:44:59,270
GREG HOPKINS: G, so it'll
be like C minor, right?

749
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:00,222
Another chord?

750
00:45:00,222 --> 00:45:02,580
TIM RAY: Right, yeah.

751
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,650
GREG HOPKINS: So one,
two, a one, two, three.

752
00:45:18,562 --> 00:45:20,130
Yeah.

753
00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:21,370
TIM RAY: Yeah, all right.

754
00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:22,370
GREG HOPKINS: So
you're using D seven?

755
00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:23,640
TIM RAY: Yeah, I used D seven.

756
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,530
GREG HOPKINS: Oh,
you used D seven, OK.

757
00:45:24,530 --> 00:45:25,750
TIM RAY: Yeah, I threw that in.

758
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:26,680
Which is not technically part--

759
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,513
GUEST SPEAKER: We did
this with [INAUDIBLE],

760
00:45:28,513 --> 00:45:30,480
and so you're already
talking [INAUDIBLE].

761
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,938
GREG HOPKINS: This
is aeolian mode.

762
00:45:31,938 --> 00:45:33,270
It's called the aeolian mode.

763
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:34,860
Let's just play G minor C minor.

764
00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:35,540
TIM RAY: Yeah.

765
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:36,665
GREG HOPKINS: One bar each.

766
00:45:36,665 --> 00:45:37,770
One two three four--

767
00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:55,447
I think modes is a great way
to start learning harmony.

768
00:45:55,447 --> 00:45:56,530
TIM RAY: Absolutely, yeah.

769
00:45:56,530 --> 00:45:58,730
GREG HOPKINS: Because
there's only one note,

770
00:45:58,730 --> 00:46:00,030
really, that's really strong.

771
00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:04,500
So here were playing G minor
for a bar and C minor for a bar.

772
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:05,410
G minor, C minor.

773
00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:07,260
What's the note that
changes the most?

774
00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:12,870
When you play the C minor
it's going to be the E-flat.

775
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:15,050
The E-flat.

776
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:18,000
So the G minor has
a D in it, right?

777
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,125
In then you go to C minor.

778
00:46:19,125 --> 00:46:21,875
[SINGS NOTE]

779
00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:27,987
So that's the
meaning of aeolian.

780
00:46:27,987 --> 00:46:29,070
TIM RAY: Absolutely, yeah.

781
00:46:29,070 --> 00:46:30,820
GREG HOPKINS: You could
play E-flat major,

782
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:34,890
would be a good
chord too, I think.

783
00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:37,680
Let's play a bar each,
G minor and C minor.

784
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:38,930
Let's start over here, guitar.

785
00:46:38,930 --> 00:46:42,580
One, a two, a one,
two, three, four.

786
00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:48,570
Good.

787
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,020
Yeah.

788
00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:49,669
Yeah, OK.

789
00:47:49,669 --> 00:47:50,210
Got the idea?

790
00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:50,960
Yeah, that's good.

791
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,730
I mean that's really
good for your ear.

792
00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:55,530
Now I'm really working
on a small slice

793
00:47:55,530 --> 00:48:00,940
of harmonic information
that I could put to use.

794
00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:04,080
Now you played D seven before,
what scale would that be?

795
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,035
TIM RAY: Yeah, right?

796
00:48:05,035 --> 00:48:08,730
So, D seven has got
what note in it--

797
00:48:08,730 --> 00:48:10,500
GREG HOPKINS: What
note does D seven have?

798
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,030
TIM RAY: --that doesn't
belong in the aeolian--

799
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:14,485
GREG HOPKINS: That's different.

800
00:48:14,485 --> 00:48:15,360
TIM RAY: Yeah, right.

801
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,090
You played it, Chris.

802
00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:16,600
F-sharp, right?

803
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:16,950
GREG HOPKINS: F-sharp.

804
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:17,449
Yeah.

805
00:48:20,434 --> 00:48:21,934
So that's kind of
like G-- now we've

806
00:48:21,934 --> 00:48:23,434
got to learn G
harmonic minor scale.

807
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,030
Which has that very interesting
augmented second interval.

808
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:44,220
Gives it an exotic, Middle
Eastern or Detroit flavor.

809
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:50,790
Let's play harmonic minor.

810
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:52,230
One, two, three.

811
00:49:00,860 --> 00:49:04,190
Let's play the triads in
harmonic minor-- slowly.

812
00:49:04,190 --> 00:49:32,500
One, two-- Yeah.

813
00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:34,816
The three chord's very
interesting, augmented chord.

814
00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:48,440
And the four chord
is still minor.

815
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:54,280
So it's similar to aeolian
but it has the much preferred

816
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,350
leading tone, the F-sharp.

817
00:49:56,350 --> 00:49:58,210
TIM RAY: Yes, indeed.

818
00:49:58,210 --> 00:50:00,710
GREG HOPKINS: Just for fun, now
let's play G minor for a bar

819
00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:02,961
and D seven flat nine for a bar.

820
00:50:02,961 --> 00:50:03,710
What do you think?

821
00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:05,990
TIM RAY: Yeah.

822
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:07,295
GREG HOPKINS: Flute first.

823
00:50:07,295 --> 00:50:08,400
Nah, I'll start.

824
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:42,565
Two, a one, two, three--
Yeah, yeah, nice.

825
00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:35,970
Yeah, and so on.

826
00:51:35,970 --> 00:51:37,445
It's another small
slice of harmony

827
00:51:37,445 --> 00:51:40,720
but it's different
than the first one.

828
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,590
So you practice that and you
practice it, and then it sinks

829
00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:44,570
in your ear.

830
00:51:44,570 --> 00:51:46,580
Because this is nothing
but ear training.

831
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:51,940
All this is just ear training
so you can pick your flavors.

832
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:55,020
OK, I want this flavor, I
want that color, that mood,

833
00:51:55,020 --> 00:51:57,985
that sound.

834
00:51:57,985 --> 00:51:59,480
Then there's melodic minor.

835
00:52:02,811 --> 00:52:04,435
Yeah, because when
you play a minor key

836
00:52:04,435 --> 00:52:06,010
you don't just
play one scale, we

837
00:52:06,010 --> 00:52:09,085
mix four or five
minor scales together.

838
00:52:11,820 --> 00:52:13,860
And if I play a
certain note, he'll

839
00:52:13,860 --> 00:52:18,172
hear it and play the voicing
behind me, or whatever.

840
00:52:18,172 --> 00:52:18,880
TIM RAY: Exactly.

841
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,810
That's where listening
comes into play.

842
00:52:21,810 --> 00:52:23,310
Listening to the
person you're with.

843
00:52:23,310 --> 00:52:25,310
GREG HOPKINS: When Wayne
Shorter was in the Army

844
00:52:25,310 --> 00:52:29,240
he used to spend a
month on one scale.

845
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:34,300
He would practice the
key of D-flat for months.

846
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,486
He'd play every tune
he knew in D-flat.

847
00:52:36,486 --> 00:52:38,610
He'd practice the scales,
he'd practice the chords,

848
00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:43,060
he'd play rhythm changes,
blues, everything in one key.

849
00:52:46,777 --> 00:52:48,110
And Coltrane did the same thing.

850
00:52:48,110 --> 00:52:51,750
All the guys that practiced.

851
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:54,080
I have a tape of Clifford
Brown practicing the bridge

852
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,086
to "Cherokee" for an hour.

853
00:52:58,086 --> 00:52:59,460
And you know he
did it every day.

854
00:53:02,136 --> 00:53:03,010
Played with his mute.

855
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:06,620
TIM RAY: Cool.

856
00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:09,710
So I also wanted
to get back to--

857
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:14,620
and this great
information, certainly-- I

858
00:53:14,620 --> 00:53:16,870
wanted to get back the idea
of having you guys pair up

859
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:18,080
a little bit.

860
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,580
And maybe try it without me
doing the accompaniment, which

861
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:27,960
of course is about listening, as
I was saying just a second ago,

862
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,546
listening to who you're with.

863
00:53:30,546 --> 00:53:33,460
Without the accompaniment
it becomes--

864
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:35,570
what becomes more important?

865
00:53:35,570 --> 00:53:37,470
This is like as Greg
and I and Eugene

866
00:53:37,470 --> 00:53:38,886
were doing with
the song, where we

867
00:53:38,886 --> 00:53:40,635
were all kind of soloing
at the same time.

868
00:53:40,635 --> 00:53:43,420
That's what I want to try to
get you guys to do a little bit.

869
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:45,410
And what aspect of
music becomes more

870
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:49,580
important in that situation.

871
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,015
Something we haven't really
talked about yet today.

872
00:53:55,340 --> 00:54:00,390
GREG HOPKINS: So let's have
flute, sax, and guitar.

873
00:54:00,390 --> 00:54:04,360
TIM RAY: What I was getting
at was rhythm, right?

874
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,460
Again, getting back to the
idea that we're all time

875
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:10,230
keepers, right.

876
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:13,885
I mean, when you hear
somebody like Greg who

877
00:54:13,885 --> 00:54:20,164
is a great improviser, his
rhythmic ideas are very clear.

878
00:54:20,164 --> 00:54:21,580
His rhythmic ideas
are very clear,

879
00:54:21,580 --> 00:54:23,500
and if he does
something intentionally

880
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:25,440
that's a little less
clear, he follows it up

881
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,310
with something that's more clear
so that the people around him

882
00:54:28,310 --> 00:54:30,130
know where the beats are, right?

883
00:54:30,130 --> 00:54:32,680
So that's another thing that's
really important to work on

884
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,160
and I know we did a little
thing with rhythm with Eugene

885
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,682
last time.

886
00:54:35,682 --> 00:54:37,848
AUDIENCE: So are we doing
an accompaniment solo type

887
00:54:37,848 --> 00:54:39,348
thing or more like
a conversational?

888
00:54:39,348 --> 00:54:41,848
TIM RAY: I think we should try
doing like a conversational--

889
00:54:41,848 --> 00:54:43,400
GREG HOPKINS: Conversation.

890
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,440
So nobody's really
comping, you're

891
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,650
all playing your own ideas.

892
00:54:50,650 --> 00:54:53,665
I'm leaving space for
other people's ideas.

893
00:54:53,665 --> 00:54:54,290
TIM RAY: Right.

894
00:54:54,290 --> 00:54:58,120
So what we'll do is
maybe have you guys play.

895
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,250
You're all improvising again,
leaving space, conversing.

896
00:55:02,250 --> 00:55:04,570
I'll do a baseline for 12
bars and then I'll drop

897
00:55:04,570 --> 00:55:06,120
and you guys keep going.

898
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,220
OK?

899
00:55:08,220 --> 00:55:09,515
So this will be improv.

900
00:55:09,515 --> 00:55:10,890
We're not going
to do the melody,

901
00:55:10,890 --> 00:55:13,940
just starting right
with the improv.

902
00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:16,120
Feel free to throw in
some motivic stuff, some

903
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,160
of the things Greg was talking
about in terms of the scales,

904
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:24,150
obviously G minor scale can
figure prominently in this.

905
00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:25,070
OK, so here we go.

906
00:55:25,070 --> 00:55:26,575
Right at the top of the improv.

907
00:55:26,575 --> 00:55:30,305
One, a two, a one, two, three--

908
00:56:13,350 --> 00:56:14,330
GREG HOPKINS: One more?

909
00:56:14,330 --> 00:56:15,310
One more.

910
00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:39,190
Not bad.

911
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:40,610
That was good.

912
00:56:40,610 --> 00:56:41,680
TIM RAY: That was good.

913
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,990
Everybody feel where
the time was, right?

914
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:46,620
Felt pretty secure to me.

915
00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:49,934
And then listening, really nice.

916
00:56:49,934 --> 00:56:51,600
One of the motifs we
haven't touched on,

917
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,465
which is the quarter
note triplets, right?

918
00:56:53,465 --> 00:56:55,040
Quarter note
triplets are tricky,

919
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,240
because that's against
the feeling of duple.

920
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:00,410
Against the feeling
of two and four,

921
00:57:00,410 --> 00:57:03,939
which is-- any
song in four four,

922
00:57:03,939 --> 00:57:05,730
most songs tend to
spend most of their time

923
00:57:05,730 --> 00:57:08,530
either quarter
notes, eight notes.

924
00:57:08,530 --> 00:57:12,020
Any kind of triplet feeling
is sort of against that.

925
00:57:12,020 --> 00:57:13,550
So when there's
not accompaniment,

926
00:57:13,550 --> 00:57:15,217
you have to be
really careful to--

927
00:57:15,217 --> 00:57:17,800
I mean I'm not saying don't play
them, I think they're great--

928
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,581
but just be really careful to
articulate where your landing

929
00:57:21,581 --> 00:57:22,080
them.

930
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,460
Because that's usually the thing
that gets rushed or dragged

931
00:57:25,460 --> 00:57:26,867
and that sometimes
can send you--

932
00:57:26,867 --> 00:57:29,450
GREG HOPKINS: And sometimes if
somebody's playing quarter note

933
00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:31,825
triplets, maybe the other
person would play quarter notes

934
00:57:31,825 --> 00:57:33,890
against that.

935
00:57:33,890 --> 00:57:36,490
Just to be obstinate, or
to have that counterpoint

936
00:57:36,490 --> 00:57:40,410
so I can tell that
they're really triplets.

937
00:57:40,410 --> 00:57:47,320
I mean, sometimes you don't
want to use mimicry too much.

938
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,400
If somebody plays an idea, don't
just play the same idea back.

939
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,160
Play something different.

940
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,010
If I say hello, you
don't say hello.

941
00:57:57,010 --> 00:57:58,110
Well, I guess you do.

942
00:58:00,870 --> 00:58:01,900
What's your name?

943
00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:04,190
What's your name?

944
00:58:04,190 --> 00:58:07,830
Yeah, you have to
have an answer.

945
00:58:07,830 --> 00:58:11,280
So let's do a flute,
guitar, and violin.

946
00:58:15,345 --> 00:58:16,720
TIM RAY: We'll do
the same thing.

947
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,970
I'll start off with the
baseline and then I'll drop out.

948
00:58:20,970 --> 00:58:22,650
But you guys keep going.

949
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:23,870
OK, here we go.

950
00:58:23,870 --> 00:58:27,610
One, a two, a one,
two, three, four--

951
00:59:36,134 --> 00:59:37,800
GREG HOPKINS: Not
bad, yeah it was good.

952
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,480
TIM RAY: OK, nice.

953
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,430
So-- oh no, go ahead.

954
00:59:42,430 --> 00:59:46,200
GREG HOPKINS: Same as before,
nice use of the motifs.

955
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,260
Sometimes I'll just
play the melody.

956
00:59:48,260 --> 00:59:50,360
And Tim and Eugene
will play around it,

957
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,567
and sometimes Tim will
quote some of the melody.

958
00:59:52,567 --> 00:59:53,650
TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely.

959
00:59:57,550 --> 00:59:59,330
A couple things to
just be careful of,

960
00:59:59,330 --> 01:00:02,060
I know you guys
are, to some degree,

961
01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:03,500
kind of hanging
on to the rhythm.

962
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:05,300
I know, which is, of
course, what we all

963
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:06,610
do in this situation.

964
01:00:06,610 --> 01:00:09,880
You're like, sometimes
you're kind of white

965
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:14,890
knuckling the beats instead of
just kind of letting it flow.

966
01:00:14,890 --> 01:00:17,280
And I think sometimes
when that happens,

967
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,900
you start to lose a
little bit of linear flow.

968
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:23,940
I felt like there was a lot
of root improvisation based

969
01:00:23,940 --> 01:00:24,930
on the roots going on.

970
01:00:24,930 --> 01:00:26,470
GREG HOPKINS: It was
a little block style.

971
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:27,344
TIM RAY: Yeah, right.

972
01:00:27,344 --> 01:00:30,160
And again, it's not to say
that if you did it again

973
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,350
you might do something
entirely different.

974
01:00:32,350 --> 01:00:36,840
But it's just one thing
to be aware of, right?

975
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,880
And this is one of these
situations where you try it

976
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,620
again and you say,
OK I'm going to not

977
01:00:42,620 --> 01:00:44,120
focus on the root
so much I'm going

978
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,480
to try to do more linear
stuff, more scales.

979
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,850
Maybe focus on the third or the
fifth, or just, like I said,

980
01:00:50,850 --> 01:00:56,600
be a little bit more free
with what you're doing.

981
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,180
So, again it's nice stuff.

982
01:01:00,180 --> 01:01:04,040
GREG HOPKINS: Let's
do flute and piano,

983
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,210
and you get another chance.

984
01:01:08,909 --> 01:01:09,700
TIM RAY: All right.

985
01:01:09,700 --> 01:01:12,060
Same thing.

986
01:01:12,060 --> 01:01:14,820
One, two, a one,
two, three, four--

987
01:02:20,719 --> 01:02:21,510
GREG HOPKINS: Bang!

988
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:25,640
OK, you stopped before the end.

989
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,980
We're still playing the fourth.

990
01:02:26,980 --> 01:02:30,092
We're still playing
12 bar forms, right?

991
01:02:30,092 --> 01:02:31,300
Did they stop before the end?

992
01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:32,281
TIM RAY: Yeah , we--

993
01:02:32,281 --> 01:02:34,780
GREG HOPKINS: Or maybe it was
just really good use of space.

994
01:02:34,780 --> 01:02:36,160
TIM RAY: Yeah.

995
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,185
It's either that or you
owe us three measures.

996
01:02:38,185 --> 01:02:39,210
I don't know.

997
01:02:39,210 --> 01:02:41,537
We'll come back and
collect next year.

998
01:02:41,537 --> 01:02:43,120
GREG HOPKINS: Let
me show you-- here's

999
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,440
an interesting way to practice.

1000
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,020
This is going to be
a revolving trio.

1001
01:02:48,020 --> 01:02:50,529
I'm going to start
with you three, OK.

1002
01:02:50,529 --> 01:02:52,820
Then you're going to drop
out, you're going to join in,

1003
01:02:52,820 --> 01:02:54,482
and then you're
going to drop out,

1004
01:02:54,482 --> 01:02:55,690
then you're going to join in.

1005
01:02:55,690 --> 01:03:00,580
Then you're going to--
whatever three people.

1006
01:03:00,580 --> 01:03:01,350
And no base line.

1007
01:03:01,350 --> 01:03:04,350
A one, two, a one,
two, three, four--

1008
01:06:22,030 --> 01:06:23,170
OK.

1009
01:06:23,170 --> 01:06:24,310
TIM RAY: Yeah, all right.

1010
01:06:24,310 --> 01:06:24,840
GREG HOPKINS: To you?

1011
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:25,340
Yeah.

1012
01:06:27,606 --> 01:06:30,230
It's a nice way to practice and
then you don't-- everyone's not

1013
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:32,604
jamming in your ear, and again
you're setting parameters.

1014
01:06:32,604 --> 01:06:35,360
We're going to have three people
playing or two people playing.

1015
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:36,500
TIM RAY: Yeah.

1016
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:38,080
Yeah, you guys are
doing a great job.

1017
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:39,375
I mean, I can tell--

1018
01:06:39,375 --> 01:06:42,000
GREG HOPKINS: You're keeping the
form and your ideas are clear.

1019
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:45,900
TIM RAY: Very nice.

1020
01:06:45,900 --> 01:06:48,930
And again, hearing some of
the motifs come into play,

1021
01:06:48,930 --> 01:06:50,065
that's very cool.

1022
01:06:50,065 --> 01:06:51,190
GREG HOPKINS: I'm thrilled.

1023
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:52,350
TIM RAY: Yeah, I--

1024
01:06:52,350 --> 01:06:54,475
GREG HOPKINS: [? Karagassian ?]
will be very happy.

1025
01:06:54,475 --> 01:06:56,599
TIM RAY: I know we're
getting close to out of time.

1026
01:06:56,599 --> 01:06:58,560
Are there any
questions about some

1027
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,919
of this stuff we've been
talking about, scales, modes?

1028
01:07:02,919 --> 01:07:05,085
GREG HOPKINS: I need to
stress what Tim said before.

1029
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:10,820
Melodies and harmonies are fine,
but the most important thing

1030
01:07:10,820 --> 01:07:13,180
in this music is rhythm.

1031
01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:14,760
Rhythm.

1032
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:16,120
Rhythm.

1033
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,210
It's like location
in real estate.

1034
01:07:19,210 --> 01:07:20,080
Rhythm.

1035
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:20,580
Rhythm.

1036
01:07:20,580 --> 01:07:22,600
You could play any
note, it doesn't matter,

1037
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:28,990
if it's in the right time and
it swings, people will buy it.

1038
01:07:28,990 --> 01:07:29,932
TIM RAY: That's true.

1039
01:07:29,932 --> 01:07:31,390
GREG HOPKINS: It's
absolutely true.

1040
01:07:31,390 --> 01:07:33,920
It's a rhythmic art form.

1041
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:35,215
Came from dancing.

1042
01:07:38,570 --> 01:07:40,530
TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true.

1043
01:07:40,530 --> 01:07:43,980
GREG HOPKINS: I do
an analogy my class.

1044
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:45,990
Let me just get to the
board right behind you

1045
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:48,820
for one second.

1046
01:07:48,820 --> 01:07:51,850
Chalk, mighty chalk.

1047
01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:52,380
Harmony.

1048
01:07:52,380 --> 01:07:54,130
We study all this harmony.

1049
01:07:54,130 --> 01:07:56,145
I'm going to give
it an H that big.

1050
01:07:56,145 --> 01:07:59,730
But I'm a melody guy, so
melody is more important.

1051
01:07:59,730 --> 01:08:06,390
But rhythm is-- and
actually it should

1052
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:08,780
go to the top of the building
to under the basement,

1053
01:08:08,780 --> 01:08:12,514
and make an R out to
Mass Ave and back.

1054
01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,149
TIM RAY: Very cool, thank you.

1055
01:08:17,149 --> 01:08:19,270
That's-- I would
agree with the that.

1056
01:08:19,270 --> 01:08:22,290
GREG HOPKINS: Rhythm is--

1057
01:08:22,290 --> 01:08:23,970
TIM RAY: So work on rhythm.

1058
01:08:23,970 --> 01:08:27,590
GREG HOPKINS: Sometimes
I just play one note.

1059
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:28,569
TIM RAY: Yeah, I know.

1060
01:08:28,569 --> 01:08:30,527
GREG HOPKINS: Let's play
a minimalistic chorus,

1061
01:08:30,527 --> 01:08:31,450
just me and you.

1062
01:08:31,450 --> 01:08:32,260
TIM RAY: OK.

1063
01:08:32,260 --> 01:09:21,454
GREG HOPKINS: Two, a
one, two, three-- Yeah,

1064
01:09:21,454 --> 01:09:23,370
so we left a lot of
space, but when we came in

1065
01:09:23,370 --> 01:09:28,170
with the rhythms, they
were very strong that time.

1066
01:09:28,170 --> 01:09:33,350
So sometimes I think I'm
playing like a melodic drummer.

1067
01:09:33,350 --> 01:09:36,270
I want to lay that melody
down so people know right

1068
01:09:36,270 --> 01:09:37,819
where it is.

1069
01:09:37,819 --> 01:09:40,544
And sometimes I don't,
sometimes I'll float.

1070
01:09:40,544 --> 01:09:41,420
TIM RAY: Right.

1071
01:09:41,420 --> 01:09:43,500
And I think most of the
good players did that.

1072
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:45,124
They'd float for
awhile and then they'd

1073
01:09:45,124 --> 01:09:47,210
lock it in with something
really specific.

1074
01:09:47,210 --> 01:09:50,830
That's one of things I work
on with some of my students.

1075
01:09:50,830 --> 01:09:52,939
Play a phrase, it
floats, and then play

1076
01:09:52,939 --> 01:09:54,410
something that really locks in.

1077
01:09:54,410 --> 01:09:56,951
So that you know the difference,
you can hear the difference,

1078
01:09:56,951 --> 01:09:59,280
and you can feel the
difference in your hands

1079
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:04,720
as to what the different--
whatever your instrument is.

1080
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,890
So you can feel the difference,
how it affects the music

1081
01:10:07,890 --> 01:10:09,950
and how it affects
your improvisation.

1082
01:10:09,950 --> 01:10:12,440
So, yeah that's
another great-- there's

1083
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:16,160
all these exercises, etudes,
whatever you want to call them,

1084
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,570
for improvisations
which are great to do.

1085
01:10:18,570 --> 01:10:21,340
GREG HOPKINS: Transcribing
is really good,

1086
01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:23,969
because you can't really
notate jazz rhythms.

1087
01:10:23,969 --> 01:10:25,510
You can write the
notes down, but you

1088
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:27,750
can't notate how
they're playing them.

1089
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,780
So you've got to listen.

1090
01:10:29,780 --> 01:10:32,410
And now copy Miles'
articulation,

1091
01:10:32,410 --> 01:10:35,180
or Clifford Brown's
articulation, or whoever,

1092
01:10:35,180 --> 01:10:37,499
Chet Baker.

1093
01:10:37,499 --> 01:10:39,540
Because they would all
play a little differently,

1094
01:10:39,540 --> 01:10:43,980
but-- it's all the tongue.

1095
01:10:43,980 --> 01:10:44,896
It's all articulation.

1096
01:10:47,899 --> 01:10:49,440
Because it's wind
instruments, I mean

1097
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:51,470
that's where a lot of
the language comes from.

1098
01:10:51,470 --> 01:10:54,220
And piano.

1099
01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:56,170
TIM RAY: But even with
piano or guitar, still,

1100
01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:58,980
the articulation makes
all the difference.

1101
01:10:58,980 --> 01:11:01,335
You could do a whole solo
just based on two notes.

1102
01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:11,120
And be somewhat interesting.

1103
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,078
I mean, it's not going
to be super interesting,

1104
01:11:13,078 --> 01:11:16,120
but just two notes with
articulation and strong

1105
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,800
rhythms, you can make
an interesting solo.

1106
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,110
Like I say, on any instrument.

1107
01:11:20,110 --> 01:11:22,360
I think that's true.

1108
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,980
Drummers do it.

1109
01:11:24,980 --> 01:11:26,606
That's how they solo.

1110
01:11:26,606 --> 01:11:29,070
It's all about how
they hit the thing.

1111
01:11:29,070 --> 01:11:30,930
They don't have 88
keys to play with,

1112
01:11:30,930 --> 01:11:33,325
they've just got four
drums and a couple symbols.

1113
01:11:33,325 --> 01:11:35,075
GREG HOPKINS: And for
the wind instruments

1114
01:11:35,075 --> 01:11:37,200
it's really just a matter
of slurring and tonguing.

1115
01:11:44,274 --> 01:11:45,690
Some short notes,
some long notes,

1116
01:11:45,690 --> 01:11:47,065
some slurred notes
in the middle.

1117
01:11:55,345 --> 01:11:56,720
You've got to
tongue but it can't

1118
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:01,700
be-- you can't
tongue too hard or it

1119
01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:04,920
sounds too much
like a classical.

1120
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,120
It's got to have the funkiness
and looseness of the swing.

1121
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:14,130
So yeah, working on your
articulation is very important.

1122
01:12:14,130 --> 01:12:16,775
That's what we do, right?

1123
01:12:16,775 --> 01:12:18,275
GUEST SPEAKER:
Unfortunately I think

1124
01:12:18,275 --> 01:12:20,447
we have to wrap because
it's the end of the period.

1125
01:12:20,447 --> 01:12:22,030
GREG HOPKINS: Is it
3 o'clock already?

1126
01:12:22,030 --> 01:12:23,071
GUEST SPEAKER: It's 3:30.

1127
01:12:23,071 --> 01:12:24,147
GREG HOPKINS: It's 3:30?

1128
01:12:24,147 --> 01:12:25,230
I'm going to get a ticket.

1129
01:12:28,345 --> 01:12:32,258
GUEST SPEAKER: So let's give
a round of applause for Greg.

1130
01:12:32,258 --> 01:12:35,120
GREG HOPKINS: Thank you.

1131
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,449
Yeah, good play.

1132
01:12:36,449 --> 01:12:37,490
TIM RAY: Yeah, nice play.

1133
01:12:37,490 --> 01:12:38,800
GREG HOPKINS: And have no fear.

1134
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,190
Have no fear.

1135
01:12:40,190 --> 01:12:43,752
Play whatever you want.

1136
01:12:43,752 --> 01:12:46,160
And try and hear it.